security justification for the agency's surveillance for combating terrorism against democratically elected leaders and private businesses. the general apparently didn't like the response or liked the question and tersely responded to him. what about this, is he right to ask this question? >> i think the question was extremely naive. he was right to ask the question but the reality is we live in a rough and tumble world and the u.s. has to have an aggressive intelligence operation. i'll give you one, terrorism. there's many states that are a good friend of ours. they're not incarcerated. they're not monitoring terrorists who may be planning attacks on the united states. we're completely within our rights to do what we have to do. to defend the homeland against such threats. >> from what i'm hearing, both of you agree with what the general has said about nsa's conducting surveillance, yet secretary of state kerry recently said the surveillance activity happened on a kind of autopilot within the nsa, without the knowledge of senior officials within the obama administration. so who's r